Fourth Suicide at Hudson Yards Vessel May Shutter the Site Permanently
Just raise the height of the railings. A small deterrent goes a long way, and I’ve seen that work on many bridges.
They did. They tripled security. Trained them in suicide prevention. Have signs offering mental health help.
It was a teenaged boy with a history of suicide attempts there with his family. It’s horrific but if it wasn’t jumping off of this, it might’ve just been jumping in front of a train or something.
To echo this, many survivors who attempted suicide at the golden gate bridge regretted their choice halfway down and realized their problems were treatable after that.
He clearly said he had a history of attempts so that idea goes right out the window with this particular case.
Ok maybe in this case it would have been hard to prevent this kid from taking his own life. But for the other jumpers, it may have worked to have nets. Who knows, maybe the feeling would have passed.
Pains me to see these senseless deaths, since I’ve felt hopeless at times, but the dark cloud passes. They just had to give themselves more time to figure things out.
1978 study on Golden Gate Bridge survivors
The 1978 Seiden study at the Golden Gate Bridge showed that 90 percent of those stopped from jumping did not later die by suicide or other violent means.
A Harvard School of Public Health article reviewing numerous studies showed more broadly that “Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date.”
OK so thanks for the source, here's my problem with it. One, where do we define "prevented" from actually stopped? For example, one could get to the edge and compilate suicide, but decide against. If they where prevented, it might have still ended in the same result. Two, this individual in the comment you replied to had "multiple attempts" meaning that he would have been in that 10%. Three, the comment did say that the building had multiple protective measures like that of the golden gate Bridge. Four, I think the golden gate Bridge might have other factors at play that make it more likely that the people who tried suicide might not be a representation of the community.
Thank you. I will check it out! I'm always willing to reexamine my opinion as long as I'm provided alternate views that are rooted in honest dialog (like this has been!). Really thank you, it's rare not to get swamped by people's aggression on Reddit, but rather friendly communication.
I respect when folks are truly willing to consider an alternative perspective (which you seem to be based on your other comments); it's unfortunately too rare these days. This film certainly gave me a new perspective on suicide and dispelled a lot of assumptions I had. Be warned it's a tough watch.
The vessel didn’t put up nets like the Golden Gate Bridge, as the company determined that it would spoil the aesthetic. They falsely came to the conclusion that having suicide watchers, banning single tickets, and bit higher railing would be enough. The corporate machine adds yet another death to their tally.
You are right about the boy being in the 10%. But everyone deserves a chance to be saved, however small the chance.
Fair. I also am of the opinion that protecting minor freedoms (such as not mandating suicide nets), is more important than protecting people from self harm. I know this is a minority opinion, but it's mine. Thank you for taking the time to source and explain your position. I don't necessarily agree 100%, but I understand your stance.
Using a study from 40+ years to deal with suicide in the modern era? It’s like using a study from the Middle Ages and saying most people think the earth is flat.
I’d be curious to see how the data would be different if the exact same study was repeated in 2021. I can guarantee you the stats will be very different - more people will be disappointed they didn’t die.
I’d say they have changed. Dramatically. Just a few examples off the top:
• 40 years ago you were only limited to people in your social circle to bully you, and only while they were next to you. At least you had a chance to breathe and focus.
Now? Thanks to the internet and social media, you can have countless of people bully you from across the world, right from their living room, 24/7/365. You will never hear the end of it.
• 40 years ago, if you ever made a big mistake, people eventually forgot about it. This helped give a chance to move on and focus on living life.
Now? A tweet or message of you from when you were 12 can get you to lose your career, your family, and your life’s work. Moving new places won’t help. It will follow you until you die. You will never be allowed to live life normally. You will always be known for your mistake.
• 40 years ago, the family circle, while not perfect, was still there. By that I mean a group of people who know you and look out for you, like you do them. Friends, family, neighbors, the local grocery dude…etc. Even in your darkest moments, someone out there would lend a hand.
Now? Most people are born and raised in broken homes. Most people don’t even know who their neighbors are. You could actually go a whole day without anyone even talking to to you or showing any sign of human interaction.
I personally can vouch for this: in one of my very dark suicidal times, spent almost 1 month where no one talked to me (unless you count the person at the cash register).
I have no friends, my family hasn’t talked to me in years, and making friends has been difficult because of my depression. And this goes to my next point
• as much as we as a society have made it less…weird to admit mental health issues, those people will face serious consequences as a result of even speaking up - did you know that even one visit to a therapist can make you lose your job in certain fields? That wasn’t so 40 years ago.
Sure, we have to stop violent mentally ill people, but someone who suffers from depression is now on the same level of warning as a sociopath with a criminal record.
In the end, all this makes people take one of three choices:
• suffer without treatment until you die
• suffer because you seeked treatment until you die
• suffer the pain and anguish of suicide until you die
Or install nets. How about making mental healthcare more accessible? People aren't killing themselves because it's tall.
He would literally trap everyone on it, without no railings and force people to jump
They should just put netting or a hanging garden around the bottom. Quickly fixed. It won't prevent 100% of deaths if people try, but will stop almost 100% of people dying if there is even a 10% chance of not dying and ending up with severe injuries instead.
Greenery would completely spoil the cold, empty, sterile, forbidding, depressive ambience.
What kind of monster would even suggest that?
This is the first time I've seen this spelled out. I was today years old when I realized "trou" was short for "trousers"
Dang u right, they look pretty epic.
https://rvca738f6h5tbwmj3mxylox3-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/GI_910290144_ShenzhenSkyline.jpg
my brother went to beijing and said you couldnt see the city, in the city because of the pollution
I mean, it's the second most populated city in China and has been notoriously polluted for years. There are plenty of other cities in the country which are not and very impressive. [Hangzhou] (https://www.google.com/search?q=Hangzhou+China&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi67NGtsI7yAhVPgU4HHQNVA3cQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=Hangzhou+China&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECAAQQzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABFD0DljDEWCKE2gAcAB4AIABgAGIAeoBkgEDMC4ymAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=WtEFYbrXA8-CuuoPg6qNuAc&bih=651&biw=1377&rlz=1C5CHFA_enVN925VN925) for example.
So which city in particular u referring to? The worst concrete city I've been to was Tokyo. They have the one green patch in the middle but that's it. Even the sidewalks often didn't have trees or anything.
Pretty much every tier 1-3 Chinese city, the only attractive Chinese cities are the rural that the CCP hasn’t been able to rule yet and is slowly tearing down any historical building
Beijing is a dollar store brand Washington DC. But that comparisons insulting to dollar store products so idk
Beijing is a dollar store brand Washington DC. But that comparisons insulting to dollar store products so idk
Yeah for sure, this structure needs to continue looking like the queen alien could appear on that top balcony and rule from her nest in there.
i know what they are, i just thought the choice of words was a little morbid
And then there’s my inner history geek thinking you were making a joke about them putting a whole Hanging Garden of Babylon down there.
Lol there's a song by the Goth band The Cure called The Hanging Garden so you're not alone in that regard
Edit: Yes I am aware The Cure is a "Goth influence" and is a post punk band. I used Goth as a blanket term so people unfamiliar with them could understand my comment since Goth is identifiable as dark themes.
Yes and no. The correct term is most likely Post Punk. They heavily influenced what would later become Goth music. I used Goth as a blanket term so people could understand my point a bit more.
The only reason they are not goth is because they are one of the bands that made goth a thing. They were goth before goth was a thing just like Shaggy from Scooby Doo is totally grunge before that was a style in the late 80s/early 90s.
Like I said, it was mainly just used as a blanket term. I know they are post punk but not everyone would be able to identify them or the genre of post punk as a Goth influence, so I opted to use a blanket term so it was easier to understand.
They were making a joke refering to hung people making a garden. Another suicide
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technically not a hanging garden, more like an asphyxiation garden.
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Imagine making billions in your lifetime but not knowing how to problem solve.
Bridges provide a valuable service. The pine cone, not so much. All of Hudson Yards should be burned to the ground. Over built monstrosity that’s hastening the death of Manhattan.
A trampoline painted to look like concrete! Bring the fun back to their life!
It's becoming an iconic suicide spot sadly for some reason so I think they're better off not tempting fate. Going up there is fine, but it's not exactly an amazing view because the buildings surrounding it block off most of what you could see.
So you think that spending maybe a couple of hundred thousand on anti-suicide measures is a waste of money but letting a $200M tourist attraction close permanently is a good idea?
There was a major public study done here in CA on suicide fences on Cal Trans bridges it was such a problem.
Turns out its a wash, netting, fencing and other measures simply displaces those deaths to other locations or means.
Their conclusions were to skip it all together and let people go for it, but that was politically impossible to do after victim's families rallied and turned their grief into public policy. So now we have 8 ft chainlink blocking all views from greater than 12 ft drops. Really going for that dystopian look.
Cornell in Ithaca uses suicide nets, and (I believe) the suicides went down.
Was that a state or even city-area number reduction, or could that be attributed to...
Turns out its a wash, netting, fencing and other measures simply displaces those deaths to other locations or means.
?
You are grossly misrepresenting that data. Suicide nets at Calif. bridges prevent suicides. The only people who don't want them are nimbys who think some kind of unaltered view is more valuable than human life.
Suicide is an impulsive act so stopping people during an attempt works.
"The evidence showing that bridge barriers work is “overwhelming,” says Paula Clayton, professor of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine and former medical director of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Most people die the first time they try to kill themselves. The easiest way to prevent suicide is by restricting access to methods with a high risk of death, Clayton says—such as jumping from a bridge.
A 2013 meta-analysis led by Australian suicide expert Jane Pirkis reviewed studies of deterrents at suicide hot spots around the world. The interventions reduced suicides by jumping at the sites by about 85 percent. Although there was an uptick in jumping at neighboring sites in some cities in the decades after deterrents were erected, the dramatic drop in jumping at the hot spots led to reduced overall rates of suicide by jumping."
drop in jumping at the hot spots led to reduced overall rates of suicide by jumping.
Well yeah! Nets are going to do that. What about by other means? If you only focus on jumpers, I'm sure nets would be a deterrent in your data.
I don't envy these researchers.
"unaltered view is more valuable than human life." I think a safe and secure world rigged up with nets, razor\barbed wire, cattle fencing, and miles of "deterrents" gives me l'appel du vide personally. It is not sound public policy to deter suicide, that should be a humanist policy or at very least a religious\spiritual one for the cynical out there.
Get the human help they need to them and leave the galvanized steel out of the equation.
The quickest, easiest way to prevent suicides at bridges is to put up netting. If you're against that you're pro-suicide.
So what you're saying is... We need to build suicide cabins everywhere so people can suicide safely? Maybe one with a meatgrinder function that disposes it into the sewers so they cabin is fresh for the next customer..?
Oh well fuck it then, let’s continue to let people easily commit suicide at a popular tourist attraction full of families and children rather than displacing them elsewhere.
Good thing there aren't any other tall buildings that are popular tourist attractions in new york
Nah, you are glossing over the point. The point is that suicide-proofing everything doesn't address the problem, just the "symptoms". We shouldn't be saying "how do we make it so people can't kill themselves", we should be saying "what can we do so that people don't want to kill themselves in the first place". Sure, we could close down all the "suicide-able" structures in the world or add nets or whatever, but in the end that is a bit like saying "well instead of educating children not to touch the stove, we should just ban stoves.".
OP is simply pointing out that this is a reactive "solution" that negatively impacts the people who would normally enjoy the structure, when in an ideal world we would be focusing on proactive social support programs that make the issue effectively moot in the first place. Maybe that's a pipe dream in the world as it is today, but it is still a very valid point.
$200M won't stop all suicides. You'll still need prevention measures at the vessel.
Definitely but in the context of this attraction we shouldn't close it down while we wait for a years long investment to pay off.
The architect probably won’t give a shit since the structure is already built and it’s ultimately up to the owner anyway.
That’s an art project as much as a business dealing. Do you think an author would mind if their publisher rewrote the plot of their book after signing a contract? I do. The architect probably cares very much how it’s presented and what changes are made. Particularly since it’s a famous structure which they can include in their portfolio.
I mean, it doesn't make anyone kill themselves. It's just a conveniently high place to jump from
Idk, this is like that pedestrian bridge in Scotland that dogs kept hurtling themselves off of, plunging to their deaths.
Desktop version of /u/obvious_santa's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtoun_Bridge
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It's only like that if you think the people jumping off Hudson Yards Vessel are chasing mink.
They would just go elsewhere, won't they? I don't see how the architect is to blame here, instead of spending money/energy on suicide proof buildings, those funds should go towards mental support etc.
A lot of people seem to be saying this, but on reality it's not so simple. We have a bridge nearby that's a very easy suicide spot. Lots of people are picked up there or jump. The laybys next to it are permanently shut, but it's still very easy to get to.
People who are intent on suicide often do so without warning. They don't always ask for help because they don't want help, they just don't want to continue the life they have. Making it harder to take their life gives another opportunity for that help, whether its directly asked for, or the warning signs picked up. They might well just go elsewhere to do so but any time for intervention is positive.
Mental health care is chronically short of funding. Maybe a practical measure to increase opportunity for intervention is more beneficial than putting that money into a system starved of staff at all levels, crisis management, actual useful resources, and most of accessibility. It depends where that funding goes.
I agree wholeheartedly that more funding is welcome, but it's a drop in the ocean.
Sure, the idea isn't really to help the people who are ready to commit suicide by providing help they can ask for, it is to prevent people from getting to that final stage in the first place. The former isn't completely futile either but it is kinda late.
We are just talking without any data, but I think a little bit of funding to mental health stuff is more helpful than relaying a suicider towards another method. Maybe the latter gives another chance at intervention as you say but if there is noone to intervene it is pointless as well. You can commit suicide so many ways it's a losing game trying to prevent it this way imo, it mostly just serves as a way of saving the "reputation" of a place.
But if you have data that shows a decline in suicide in general after a location was made suicide proof, I like to see it.
No. In Malcolm Gladwell's book, Talking to Strangers, he writes that suicide is often a case of desire and access.
He talked about how in England, cooking gas used to be a mix of CO and some other gas. The rate of suicide was higher because it was relatively easy for people to commit suicide — was easy access (as well as relatively painless). But when they switched to a different gas, the rate of suicides dropped. Importantly, those people DID NOT choose another method. If they had just moved to a different method, the rate of suicide would've stayed the same.
...Gladwell cites an article published in 1988 by two criminologists about the link between carbon monoxide in domestic gas and suicide in England and Wales. The paper argued persuasively that the phasing out of lethal “town gas” in Britain in the 1960s and ’70s caused a decline in suicides. When cooking stoves no longer provided an easy way to kill oneself, many who might thus have ended their lives did not pursue alternative methods. Gladwell thinks this historical context ought to affect our view of the poet Sylvia Plath, who was unfortunate enough to have town gas in her London home, and killed herself with it in 1963.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/books/review/talking-to-strangers-malcolm-gladwell.html
Interesting, thanks.
I also found a bunch of stuff about the ban of hazardous pesticides leading to a decrease in suicide across Asia.
I still believe this isn't the proper solution (as even if one cannot commit suicide, their reasons to do so do not go away) but it is good to hear it is somewhat effective.
My other concern is for the difference between the modes of suicide discussed here, dying by gas might be interpreted as a "softer" method than jumping from tall structures onto hard surfaces. Whoever is willing to go for the latter I'd assume will have an easier time finding a replacement, either by different tall buildings or jumping in front of trains etc. I'm just speculating however.
Meh. I've walked around it, it's neat. Those people would have killed themselves regardless.
Wasn’t that a plot of a scary movie?
A painting that makes people do horrible things. Murder/suicide etc.
Additionally, the new American horror stories show (anthology series of one or two episode horror arcs) has an episode about a movie that makes people kill.
There was a similar creepy copypasta a long time ago, I think this was a painting bought or sold in a garage sale, I don't remember much more about it than that.
I'm really surprised people don't know this. I actually wrote to a favorite author once, due to the fact that her books in a series I was reading suddenly had explicit sex all the time, that added nothing to the plot. Even her covers changed to the character in underwear. She wrote back that she was told it was necessary. Sucks. It makes me wonder how much better so many books would be if they didn't have to follow what the masses want at the time. Independently published books have less changes as far as I know. I read a lot of self published books.
Why can't we do both things?
Yeah an architect may not like it but with as much respect I have for artist, people's lives are more important. If I made something and someone else modified it to make it safer, I know I'd understand and I'm going to question anyone who wouldn't.
Does the architect have a say in it anymore? It has been open for a while.
The architect (Heatherwick) actually designed higher barriers for this purpose, but the developer refused to put them in.
And it's weird to believe that a suicidal person will just not try to kill themselves is they can't use this one method
That's how suicidality usually works though. Very impulsive, so anything that breaks the path can often stop it from happening at all.
Yeah but maybe they’ll go somewhere without dozens of families and children. Not all will, but some would.
For real. Even some shurbs could break a fall if they are planted thick enough. It would be big injuries but might not be death.
I am literally suggesting putting nets under the 'ideal' jump point i.e. under the outside of the structure.
hahaha
"let's put something that will maim them and make then wish they died. that'll teach 'em."
The point is, if you take away a highly effective and near instantaneous method of death, people won't use it.
You’d have to couple it with a potential hefty fine to dissuade jokers and attention getters from jumping off for the hell of it.
Suicide nets aren't 100% effective. And from 10 storeys, you're definitely seriously injured.
The point is that they can't just keep open a suicide hotspot. Fixing the risk of suicide across all of the US is a lot more cost and time and will never be fully solved
They were advised to put up barriers but the artist and the yards said no.
Better yet: a shark tank. Nobody wants to survive a water landing only to face some hungry threshers.
Wait is it just stairs leading to stairs leading to stairs?
What is this torture device?
Could you imagine building a maze that only confused and got dumb people stuck...?
Like a dumb people trap. I'd watch that game show.
Whatever it is, it was a total waste of money and everyone’s time.
Without knowing the context it could well be that the family was a large part of why the gulf wanted out.
Mental health is not so simple. He was depressed but he was seen moments before playing and laughing with his sister.
I’ve heard this several times.
But as someone who wants to learn to shoot, but doesn’t really need to buy a gun, how would I go about this? Booking a lesson or something?
Bring a friend with you, or take a class if they offer them. My local gun store / range offers classes and you get to shoot a selection of pistols. You don't need a pistol to go to that class. There are instructors constantly present though unlike if you just rent a lane.
Pretty much. It's a conundrum. I wanted to learn to shoot. Also wanted to find out what gun I should buy. But they won't let me rent it by myself. The guy at the range was really nice and gave me some pointers personally because the range was not too busy. But generally it's a no go. If I was to try all over again, what I would do is to buy a 22lr pistol like Taurus TX22 or Glock 44 or S&W 22lr, or Rugar's similar offerings. This way you are now considered a "gun owner" so free to rent whatever on your own. Plus 22lr pistol is useful for training too.
Just look into your local laws. I've never heard of this anywhere I've lived
Right. Never heard of it. How else are you gonna decide what gun to buy? You may need a permit to rent in some states
It’s the same at my shooting range. You can also only rent and shoot a gun if you’re a member. I don’t think they let guests rent firearms.
But you could shoot yourself at the range with your own gun, so how does this solve anything?
Also, it shows that being alone makes no difference because you're not alone at a gun range.
That just sounds like suicide with extra steps. They figure you'll just do it at home if you own a gun, not their problem.
First of all, I don't own a gun range and it's not my policy, so I don't know why you'd ask me.
Second, if you already have a firearm, you don't need to go to a gun range to kill yourself, which is what they're trying to prevent.
Finally, gun ranges have 'lanes' separated by anti-ballistic barriers and nobody (at least at the one I go to) stands behind you and watches you. They have cameras but the employees are on the other side of sound and ballistic baffles etc. They aren't in there with you.
But again, it's not my policy, and it doesn't bother me whether you believe in it or think it's effective.
That's honestly the best, least-intrusive anti-suicide measure I've heard of in this entire thread.
A policy can still be effective even if there are rate exceptions.
That’s super messed up though.
The 4th suicide at the vessel was with the kids parents and grandmother
Something I just realized is that a person willing to make a serious suicide attempt (not simply a cry-for-help) likely has no friends or family willing to spend time with them.
This may help you understand, it’s a quote by American author David Foster Wallace:
“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”
He took his own life sometime after…
That really isn't the case. Remember, most people who are interrupted in a suicide attempt don't try again, and if a loved one was with them they would definitely attempt to interrupt the attempt.
That's pretty intrusive for single people who like to travel alone and visit neat things.
But that policy was introduced after the last 3 suicides and it didn’t stop this one from happening…
I think they don’t let you in unless you’re in a group. Unfortunately I think this last incident involved a kid who was visiting with his family.
It's pretty intrusive, and it also failed to prevent this suicide just a few weeks after the policy was introduced, so it's not effective either.
You're not going to get to a point of zero suicides, just reduce the frequency. It honestly seems like a cool reputation to have that people are literally dying to visit your building.
I take whole trips by myself, and love it. I can come and go as I please, take as much time on individual activities as I like without anyone rushing me, and can eat what I want without juggling a bunch of dietary restrictions or pickiness.
hey i enjoy my own company! i enjoy my company plenty!
runs away crying
Never been better, had the best week of my life last week in Pittsburgh! Thx for checking in 🥳
Are you really that surprised that an installation like that might charge an entrance fee?
It was free but now it costs $10 because apparently suicidal people won't pay $10 to kill themselves
When I visited, the timed tickets were free. They used tickets to control the crowding, not to make money. Even at $10, it's a bargain considering most NYC attractions are quite a bit more expensive.
There is an elevator if you prefer to take that up and walk down. Shame that it's going to be closed due to the acts of a few people.
The last one the teen with was his family. So does not fix it enough
This is the first step to suicide booths. Welcome to the world of tomorrow!
I just watched the first episode of Futurama again the other day. “You are now dead, thank you for using Stop n Drop, America’s favorite suicide booth since 2008”
"Yeah I'd like to make a collect call."
"You have chosen slow and painful."
Vonnegut wrote a story about ethical suicide parlors—welcome to the monkey house.
I mean, if it's not the Hudson yards, I'm sure they'll find another way to kill themselves.. I don't condone suicide, but I also believe it's not the yards fault these people died.
We will do everything in our power to prevent suicides (post signs, add a $10 entrance fee, train security on suicide prevention), except for raising the waist high guard rails.
Billioniare owner (after the fifth suicide), "Apparently nothing works, so we are shutting it down."
If you didn’t plan for that as being there during your attempt, then it will at the very least postpone your attempt and allow you to rethink or seek help. Suicide attempts have been stopped by things as simple as getting distracted by a person walking by. But yes, the people who jumped likely planned for the fee.
“Well, of people are going to kill themselves here, we might as well profit from it!”
the capitalist credo
I mean if I was gonna kill myself I wouldn't pay 10 dollars for it not gonna lie. Seems like a somewhat useful deterrent
Studies have shown that even small obstacles to suicide can stop people. Suicide is often an impulsive act.
You guys sound close. When'd Steven Ross tell you about the 5th suicide? I don't think any of the news articles have even written about that event yet.
Odd to wish that on a billioniare who just wanted people to enjoy a nice view.
Your opinion makes no sense if the aim is to keep The Vessel open. Logically, you would exhaust all options before closing something down permanently.
Freeway medians aren't going to deter someone who's already set on driving on the wrong side of the road./s
Why have them then?
Below for those dealing with suicide/depression and have stumbled onto this devolving thread.
If you are struggling with thoughts of suicide or worried about a friend or loved one, help is available. Call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 (TALK) - for free confidential emotional support 24 hours a day 7 days a week. You can also reach the Trevor Project at 1-866-488-7386 or the Crisis Text Line by texting "START" to 741741.
Weird place for a compliment but I'll take it.
Odd that suicidal people would choose a newly built, beautiful architectural structure to commit suicide from, rather than any other building, bridge, structure in the US with more than 8 floors.
Must be nothing we can do against the freedom of a determined person. Why have laws at all? Adorable.
See that would be the right thing to do. And that's why nobody's doing it.
I mean how many buildings do you know that tall that have easy or convenient roof access???
What a question to ask. Thanks for the joke./s
Just going to plug this below, for anyone that read into your comment seriously.
24/7 National Suicide Prevention Lifeline number (US): 800-273-8255
Well, they can't jump off if they can't climb over the guard rails!
Imagine if that zoo, that had to shoot the gorilla after that little kid went under the rope and fell into the pit, had the same response. "No, we can't fix the ropes. We just need to shut the whole thing down."
Wait, so they did not build this for easy suicide ? There should be a sign telling not to suicide at the entrance.
Installing a slide would be more effective, contemplating suicide is way harder when you're having fun.
Literally a guy said in a ted talk (or maybe just a motivational speech on YouTube) that he literally decided not to kill himself because a lady held a door open for him at the entrance to the building and said good morning, and said "How are you?*
He was only going into that building to jump off it.
He said it stopped him for a moment as he had to think.
He said he didn't tell her, but he thought about it properly himself.
So I make it a point to say "How's your morning going" instead of hello to my coworkers.
You never know.
I once called a suicide hotline at 4AM, ready to off myself from a bridge. I figured I might as well, never called one before.
Turns out the only hotline opened at that time was for teenagers, which the person promptly informed me after asking my age (23 at the time). They told me the adult hotline would open in a few hours and that they could give me their number, but they unfortunately couldn't help me. I sighed loudly into the receiver and said "No, nevermind, it won't matter then", then hung up.
I stood in the cabin for a good minute, processing what just happened, then busted out laughing. Of course, I would be turned down from a fucking suicide hotline, so goddamn typical.
I must've been laughing in tears for something like 5 whole minutes when I decided to walk back home, chuckling along the way. In a weird, backwards way, that phone call probably saved my life, this was peak comedy, you can't make that shit up, how could I kill myself while hysterically laughing at how ridiculous my life became. In that moment, Eric Idle's lyrics came to me as clear as day and changed my perspective on life.
I do feel bad for the volunteer on the other end though. That must've been a rough call to take from their point of view.
That sounds like the opening scene to a romantic comedy. Glad you are still with us to tell this story.
Well, now that you've commented this, everyone will think it's stolen from a reddit post
By the time I get it up and running, no one will remember this and think I made it up anyway
I'm sorry you were in a bad place and that you contemplated taking your life. I am thankful that you're still here because your story is quite funny, despite the circumstances it did make me laugh. I hope that since then things have gotten better for you and that you've sought help if needed. Thank you for sharing your story :) you're appreciated!
I strongly dislike the robotic "how are you?' from coworkers, never really expecting an answer, not a conversation-starter, just as if they're learning English 101, non-creative, mundane.
Putting mirrors are subway stations can significantly reduce attempts.
Blue lights are so one can’t find their veins to use drugs intravenously
Like oh, I don't know. Realizing you have to walk back down those 35 flights of stairs?
Where I live there's a college with really high stairs where people to to jump. When you go inside immediately you see several banners all around incentivating people to seek help and announcing the college's (free&public) mental health programs, but the thing is the stairs. They are netted but people still jump. So the whole stairs (and net) are covered in notes, from students, faculty, members of the deceased. Some have positive messages like don't do it, you're loved, you're not alone, things like that. Some are history of the deceased, asking people in the same situation to go down and ask for help. Some are from family members telling how sad they felt or how much they miss who they lost. Some health professionals put their info and offer free services. Other suicidal people write about how they've given up doing the same and found a way to be happier. I didn't go there, but a few friends that have tell me sometimes you're in class and you can hear people crying outside, because they went there to jump but decided not to after reading all of these notes on the way up. People still cut through the net (or use another hole they found bc sometimes people cut the net and then give up, and those holes are harder to find), but the messages work most of the time. It's a good college, but the saddest place I've ever been to.
If suicides really are that common there, I can’t imagine why the school hasn’t figured out a permanent solution like metal bars. I imagine the crying might also be people moved to emotion by reading the letters for another reason — like you said, people go there just to see it.
What college is this?
UERJ (RJ, Brazil). Money issues. It's a public college, as most are in my country, but there's always money problems, and UERJ is a state college (not federal) so funds are even tighter. It's almost closed a bunch of times in the past because of that. Also, people absolutely dont go there just to see it, at least I've never heard of anyone before who thought of uerj's suicide notes as an attraction or something? Like, folks are NOT comfortable with the heavy atmosphere of those stairs man they're really creepy
Just make it really super illegal and enforce it really well with thought police!
That’s cool that bots have cake days too, I never knew. Although, they probably prefer cookies over cakes.
Oh fuck off, you don't get to play the "I was judged" victim card when you said something shitty and judgemental. Take the L and move on
Honestly what did they expect? That’s a rad place to kill yourself.
No, more like romanticizing suicide. The experience I'm having looking at this is more like reading a good novel that depicts a suicide as a heroic act. That can lead to ideation but is not the same thing.
That’s a really really fucked up way to talk about suicide. It’s not about attention, they’re fucking dead. What is wrong with you?
What's wrong with them? Projection.
Some just want attention, even if for one fleeting second.
as someone whose work commute made me walk past this structure every morning, this is one of the funniest comments ive ever read about it
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They should just make it like a $500 fine if you kill yourself off it
Also a bunch of religions consider it homicide because you're taking a human life, even if it's your own. So apparently enjoy Hell, while you're at it.
Set up a skeet shooting facility at the bottom. Suicide rates will plummet, homocide rates will fly!
It's more complicated than that. There's a bridge in Korea where suicide is popular. The news reported on it and suicide rates increased. So they put up signs saying "please call this hotline if you're thinking bout suicide" and suicide rates increased. So they put up happy statements talking about how great life is thinking it would cheer people up. And suicide rates increased.
As for the suicide rate and stopping suicidal people, that's no one's concern. The issue is that regular suicides are bad for business for the attraction and for surrounding areas. It also opens the company up to liability. No one thinks that getting rid of the building is going to somehow stop suicides. It's more a "not in my back yard" issue.
For me it's the opposite, but the same result. If I was really suicidal and then had a spike of contentment I'd think "this is a good note to end it on".
My point is if you can attract suicidal people to a particular place it makes it much easier to stop them doing it. Like that guy that keeps stopping people jumping off a particular bridge.
Is the Korean rate going up because of the bridge? Suicide in Japan and Korea is pretty high I think, but I don’t think bridges are causing it.
Make a permanent mental health patrol.
The attempts at stopping suicide at the bridge was attracting more suicides to the bridge. Whether the bridge was causing suicides overall to increase is too complicated of a question for anyone to really answer. We don't have a control universe without the bridge to compare.
Who would "make a permanent mental health patrol"? From what I can tell it's owned by a private company. I really don't think a real estate company wants to get into the completely new field of "vigilante suicide prevention as a service". Once again, the liability alone for something like that is a legal and ethical can of worms I don't think any serious organization would want to get into.
One guy sitting on a bridge doing a thing is very different than a corporation providing mental health services in a public venue.
I'm saving "control universe" for some future fiction writing, thanks.
About the thing itself, the main problem is being a private building. They could connect their image with suicide prevention etc etc, but do they want it? We might think it's obviously a good thing, but companies like to make the right connections to influence, at the bottom line, consumption of their product/service. If this doesn't help them in any way (eg., they being a hospital or medical center of sorts), there really wouldn't be much of a point, even if morally it's a pretty good initiative.
because the only way to stop suicide is to make peoples lives better, invest in ending poverty and the suicide rate will go down
and you realize that depression is much more common in the poor?
You're telling me celebrity suicides are more known?? Wowww I never would've guessed
Look up notable suicides. There's plenty of people on there who you've never heard of, who had more money than you or I ever will.
"notable suicides" when rich fucks offs themselves its notable, when poor people do it, its a statistic. do rich people kill themselves? yes. do they anywhere near as much as poor people? no.
Yes. People of note, who again, you may not have heard of, but are still proof that you can't buy mental health
doesn't matter poor people do it more, and money doesn't buy mental heath. it buys stability and therapy though
Of course poor people do it more. Poor people do everything more. There's more of them. Poor people buy more Hondas than rich people. Poor people eat more oatmeal than rich people. That's like saying more Chinese people commit suicide than white people in China.
There's a very simple, easy, and humane way to fix this problem. Much like safe injection sites help people who are absolutely going to take drugs do it in a safe place; we need safe suicide providers. Euthenising people who want it. I guarantee that standing up on a bridge and jumping is an incredibly terrifying, traumatic, and lonely way to die. People are going to do it though. Wouldn't you rather your loved ones, even just people you see in the street if they were going to die by suicide do it in a safe, calm environment.
This sounds like it’d be the logical position but studies on locations like bridges show it’s actually not correct in the real world. The Golden Gate Bridge is a great example.
If I was gonna jump off a building, I would totally choose this one too
Could someone explain what the point of this thing is? Looking at the pictures, I can't fathom why anyone would want to use it.
It’s an interactive architectural sculpture. It sounds stupid, I thought it would be a dumb Instagram tourist trap. But in person it is pretty impressive.
For one thing, you are very high up in open air, and it feels much higher from the top. While it is not as tall as an observation deck like Top of the Rock or the ESB, it is just tall enough to still feel real, where as sometimes the obs decks are so tall they feel surreal.
The architectural part feels very unique as well. Once you get inside and start climbing you realize you have never been in a structure like it before. That part does feel surreal.
Your comment that it feels real vs surreal makes sense to me. Thank you.
Let's be real, that building is not a nice thing to begin with.
Is it? I feel like the endless staircase to nowhere set in a soulless shopping center was a little too on the nose. It's just endless influencers and death, with no real utility or function. Sure it's a beehive, but buildings shaped like other things isn't really exciting either. New Yorkers get enough of steel and staircases as it, I see nothing new, innovative or particularly inspiring in this thing. It just takes up a lot of space to emphasize how expensive and purposeless it is.
No, it is outdoor space, with greenery, walking areas and is fairly accessible. It seems very obvious how different the two things are.
The building has proven itself to be a failure. The architecture, the circumstances, it has all come together to be a blight on NYC. That in itself is an indicator that whatever was hoped for, hasn't worked out. Unless the goal was suicides and jokes about it being a death tower was the goal? Otherwise we can unequivocally say, this project was not a success.
So sad to hear. This is an incredible adult jungle gym, no one builds things like this anymore. Can netting/ fences be put in place, a la Goldengate Bridge?
This is what I thought. An incredible shame since it was amazing to climb up when I visited a few years ago. The zigzag staircases looked trippy af, and the view from the top at sunset was unbelievably beautiful. Hope they find a decent solution that doesn’t involve shutting the whole thing down.
No one builds things like it anymore? It was started in 2017 and opened in 2019
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I think I'm more offended by their photography policy than I am the suicides
I mean if you're going to do that, you're going to do that anyway. I don't see why a cool and unique structure should be shut down.
Oh I get that, I’m just saying that there are countless opportunities of the same sort, none of which I am going to list, that don’t require a public art structure.
Just put a sign at the entrance. A disclaimer. Not responsible for suicides.
I am not a fan of the design after living near it for a couple years,, but I don't necessarily blame the architecture. If a human wants to climb over a fence or wall to jump they will. The hanging garden idea in the comments is interesting as it could integrate the design at a human scale and provide safety. However as a architectural designer I hate the argument 'just raise th fences' because they did and surprise someone found a way over, they even have a rule you can't go to this by yourself ( which is another bag of worms ).
I guess we should close all train stations and large bridges too? This is lame. That is a really nice piece of art and architecture.
time to ban buildings over 5 feet. there is really no reason to build up when we could build down and end all suicides.
To be fair it does look like it'd be fun to base jump off of.
It's only 150'. Sorry to burst the bubble, but most BASE jumpers wouldn't go near a jump that low.
I feel like 6-8 foot tall glass walls instead of railings would mostly fix the problem.
The rent moratorium is close to being lifted, so that might be good timing to shut it down.
Awww man I just saw this for the first time recently and thought it looked so cool
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The actions of four individuals affect thousands of others that want to see this thing
Maybe they should leave it, those people would have probably killed themselves regardless of if that option was available
How will we compete for world record Hudson Yards: The Game then?
Connor will be devastated...
Damn I was there just yesterday. Didn’t even think it might be a suicide threat.
I mean: maybe we invest in mental health instead of nets, security, demolition, and such.
I have twelve roofs I have easy access to off the top of my kind I could think of right now to jump off if I wanted. This is not the way.
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The stairs are the point. It’s literally made of stairs. It’s an interactive architectural sculpture, basically. Sounds stupid but it is actually pretty cool in person.
As a NYer, all I can say is fuck that metal beehive. It’s an eyesore, a useless waste of what should be public greenspace, and it’s built in Hudson Yards, a modernist monument to gentrification.
I fucking hate Hudson yards
Everything has gotten out of whack. I remember being shocked that Ben Benson's had to close because the rent renewal was too high. I can remember bringing clients there for lunches that went well over a grand, and they couldn't afford their RENT? Complete insanity. Do they want a city comprised of nothing but Apple stores and 15 million dollar apartments? Something's gotta give...
That's a shame, not just because of the dead people, but also because that's a really cool looking building.
MFs walk up all of downstairs only to realize there is nothing up there and just have to walk down again. I understandably some might jump.
What the with people having that much energy to climb the up there just to jump to your death? Laziness is the only thing keeping me alive.
I know suicide is typically done when people aren't in their most calm and cooled state, but honestly you just be a selfish fucking prick to kill yourself ON someone's accomplishment, or in traffic, etc.
Suicide is already inherently selfish, don't fuck up anyone else's life (aside from the people you know, cause they will be absolutely shattered) on your way out.
Ooh, and program the fountains to shoot at jumpers, creating an h20 dome
Tell me you wasted 200 million, without telling me you wasted 200 million...
This building doesn't look in my opinion evil in the slightest, and the backstory doesn't change how it looks. This is just my opinion though looks like something out of those utopian depictions of a futuristic city with modern architecture.
Maybe they'll knock it down too. Then we can have a dance party on it's grave.
So, what's the point of the structure, get some steps in? I was hoping it transformed. It looks pretty cool.
yo in fairness that's a badass place to kill yourself, i totally would have if i lived there
Or the fucking pyramids. Thousands of slaves workers died building these for the sole reason of providing a burial place for a king and his queen. If that's not vanity, then I don't know what is.
EDIT: Reply below me is most probably correct, most Egyptologists conclude that the pyramids were built by ordinary workers who couldn't work other jobs like the fields during times of flooding.
I thought I read that they discovered that the pyramids were built by paid construction crews and not slaves. I'm too lazy to look it up though.
All that was installed well after it was planned and built. Its sole concept is to be a 300m-high tower, with no purpose other than showing man can build it.
Also, I think you exaggerate a bit with the devices on it – it’s still primarily a touristic site. There are no bars, and only one restaurant on it. There are some meteorological probes along with antennas, but there is no lab on it. And what do you mean by ships?
Shops that sell Eiffel Tower merchandise on the Eiffel Tower don’t really build the case for it not being a pure vanity building.
The Eiffel tower was originally planned to be dismantled after 30 years.
"The Mona Lisa is a pointless waste of paint and canvas. Why didn't Da Vinci just use the canvas for a satchel or use the paint to cover graffiti? Pure vanity project. Unrelated note, I don't understand art."
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The elevator is for handicapped persons that want to take a photo on top. Otherwise I think you can't use it.
I’m not sure that’s actually help anything more than the location right?
I bet most these people don't think about the fact that dying is hard.
Gunshot to the head, could takes minutes or longer to die.
Falling, be crippled up, brain damage or long death.
Why are people going here to kill themselves instead of one of the many other locations they could go on NY?
I've been there before, and to someone who's been afraid of heights for forever, it can be stressful. I didn't know people actually died there, its a little terrifying to me.
Is a pretty nice tourist attraction tho, a lot of stairs but very pretty. Just like don't do.... that.
The vessel fucking sucks, Hudson yards fucking sucks - me, the exterior facade consultant
Railing height my friend - the Vessel meets NYC building code but we advised them to be higher
A believe it’s a bit higher because it’s 42” at the lowest stair height which would mean the typical horizontals are a touch higher
Fuck these people. Ugh I'm gonna kill myself and inconvenience and ruin this attraction for everyone else. I'm glad these wastes are dead.
RIP to the dead people but hopefully they do take this monstrosity down. I’ve never understood it’s appeal to people
when are people going to realize their values / bullshit doesn't always apply to others...
ie, weak? dude, it takes some crazy strength to carry out the act, you can't deny such. wowzers.
really wish people would stop with the whole moralizing of this issue, kind of like forty or fifty years ago when everybody just "knew" that gay people were mentally ill supposedly, well that's obvious bs, kind of like making assumptions on this topic to begin with -
then again, i probably agree with you on the specifics, i don't want to live in a world where everything fun and cool is shut down or banned because someone else might mis-use it, yet that seems to be the way we are heading.
As someone that struggles with stairs (hip issues causing mobility problems, not a lazy obese individual), even with this building looking beautiful, it also looks like a personal hell designed just for me.
Wouldn't stop me from ever having the privilege of experiencing this architectural master-piece. Would just need to ensure I have sufficient pain-killer on hand and access to a hot bath after-wards. And well if I'm in hell, hot water should be easy to find, right?
Liberals: you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t hurt others
Why aren’t their crisis counselors there or some kind of suicide prevention outreach?
I'd like to jump off there, if I'm gonna do it, might as well do it with style
TBH I’m not Suicidal but something about that design makes me want to jump off it.
Seeing the photo, I wasn’t sure the purpose of this building. Seems like a tourist attraction, like climbing a bunch of steps to get to a viewpoint. More from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vessel_(structure)
Read the article that says that they are lobbying for higher barriers because of this suicide. Not sure how higher barriers would stop people who have already decided to commit suicide. A net would be better.
Why not just enclose it like they did with the Empire state building? People would jump from the building all the time. Or do like they do on the freeways, put fences so no one can drop boulders, or themselves, onto the drivers of other freeways, parkways, highways etc.
That's sad as fuck. And so many people get traumatized by that happening in front of them. Jesus
There are plenty of other things to jump off of if one is inclined to.
When i worked in the water tower mall in chicago it happened. Kind of the same deal it had an open center to the bottom food court area. I guess it happened enough but according to my store owner no one made it to the bottom.
For how long it's been there, the population density and how many people can get to it within 2 days drive I would say no,
It is unlikely to increase suicides by existing, why shutter it?
It is literally flanked by buildings people could use for the same purpose
This reminds me of the building in I, Robot - weirdly, that kicks off with a deadly fall as well.
Wherefore they not just asketh if 't be true people art going to jump?
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Wait till monday when 7 millions of people get evicted. The number might double by the end of the day.
Im going to go against the grain on this. Thats an awfully nice place to kill ones self. Not like they cant do it elsewhere in a less pleasing setting.
I'm trying to figure out why this thing exactly has become the place to go...
I live beside a suicide magnet in Toronto; the prince edward viaduct. After reducing the suicide numbers with a barrier the bridge is a lot more safer. Something like that needs to happen here and can even improve the look of this structure if done properly.
This is such a pretty place to die. I bet its like falling through a kaleidoscope
The security has good harassment training If you are a certain demographic and can't prove your a tourist...
It’s sad I find this spectacle so amusing like stop with these weird art projects they just end up being suicide tools. They keep it open for $$$ but at the cost of lives.
Looks like the type of structure you can take good photos of but then when you get up it; it's underwhelming.
Honestly can see why, I don't even have the motivation to climb the stairs up to my flat, fuck that I'd be taking the easy way down, my legs hurt
Saw this picture some months ago and honestly wondered how many suicides it would take before they shut it down. Is there no fencing around the sides?
All the people trashing this thing feel like the same people that would've complained about the Eiffel Tower when it was built
The big question is, do you give it some effort and make a leap towards the center or take the easy out and just lean over the outside?
Thank you for the hug! That was nice of you. I know & realize that this kid felt the pain he was feeling was just unbearable and he had to to go. I wish he didn't do it in front of his mother, father, sister & grandmother. That's why I feel bad because of the people left behind.
I mean, if you were gonna do it, this definitely looks like the place. It’s just all stairs and windows.
What's the point of that anyway?
Also imagine building a structure like that and planting no trees or shrubs like wtf
I thought this was already closed to the public for the same reason
That looks like a fantastic building to kill myself from/on. If I were to suicide off any building, it would be this one.
Maybe not take your suicidal kid to a suicide hotspot? Either way building should be condemned. Not because of suicides, but because of its lack of ADA accessibility.
Yes... Close the building, don't address the underlying issues... Sounds about right.
God, thither wast mine own chance to killeth myself and i did miss t
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What an incredibly useless structure. Well, I guess it’s good for one thing at least.
Oh we're talking EVIL evil buildings now
/s I really hope that they can find a way to prevent this, and help the folks who are in that kind of a position.
I went to NY a few months ago and saw this and like... it's so ugly in person. There's not much of a view while you're on it, and it's definitely not ADA compliant. There's really no point for it, like definitely anybody will commit suicide off of anything when they get the chance to do so, however, I feel like maybe if people are throwing themselves off of it, you should consider better things to deter them besides signs and security maybe like put a net? like it's an ugly structure already, a net won't make a difference.
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